The amazing routeing question

26^th October 1998

Dear Mr Stevens,

Thank you for your letter of 25th September. Your replies were very interesting and have led me to doing further research; hence the delay in this followup. Since you have analysed the Routeing Guide in response to my previous letter, I hope you will be able to reply more quickly this time: if your reply will be later than 6^th November, please let me know when to expect it.

In response to my question 1 you state:

Map AS is different from the other maps in that it states (in red capital letters): "Only for through journeys from or via London to Scotland."

I agree that that wording is present but, since my planned journey fitted that description I do not understand the relevance. You suggest that I look up the permitted route from Edinburgh to Glasgow, but you provide no explanation as to why I should do so - there is certainly no suggestion in the instructions that it is necessary to pick random intermediate stations and look at such routes. You also don't explain why I should choose Edinburgh rather than Perth or Inverness. Indeed, your wording "I realise the ruling on this may not be entirely clear from perusing the Guide" is an understatement - nobody I have discussed this with can find any support at all for your view.

Re-examining the red wording on map AS, and also the associated blue wording, it seems to me that their purpose is simply to make it clear that the map should not be used for journeys like Leeds to Glasgow, even though both places are shown on the map. However, since you consider that map AS should be treated specially, I have looked for other examples of the problem I have run in to.

Q.10: For each of the following journeys, please tell me whether the proposed route is permitted on an "any permitted" ticket and, if not, why not. In each case the Routeing Guide names a single map, and the route is entirely on that map without doubling back. In each case there is an "any permitted" fare.

1. Finsbury Park to London Liverpool Street (map WA) via Stevenage, Royston, Cambridge, Stansted Airport, Harlow Town, and Tottenham Hale.
2. Lincoln to Grimsby (map ER) via Spalding, Peterborough, Grantham, and Doncaster.
3. Peckham Rye to London Victoria (map LK) via Catford, Bromley South, Borough Green, Ashford, Tonbridge, and Croydon.
4. Bradford to Leeds (map PN) via Preston, Liverpool, Earlestown, Chester, Crewe, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Goole, Hessle, and Selby.

Q.11: A permitted route for London to Newcastle is given as ER+MM. Is the following route permitted: London St.Pancras via Settle and Carlisle to Glasgow (map MM) and thence to Edinburgh (map ER). If not, why not ? Do you also accept that travel via Settle, Carlisle, and Hexham is not permitted ?

In response to my question concerning London to Carlisle via Inverness, you correctly point out that there is no "any permitted" ticket. One of the routes is "direct". I can see nothing in the Routeing Guide that lets me determine what a "direct" route is.

Q.12: What are the permitted routes for a "direct" fare ?

Now consider the journey Peterborough to Carlisle. This includes an "any permitted" fare, and the specified map sets are:

LM+PS
(MM/LM)+ER
(LM/MM)+CN
LM+(PN/PS)+ER

Once again, therefore, routeing LM+ER via Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness, and Stirling appears to be possible.

Q.13: Is the route Peterborough via Inverness to Carlisle permitted on an "any permitted" ticket? If not, why not?

In the discussion of tickets with routes, both in the guide and in your reply to question 4, you have not considered the situation where none of the permitted routes run via the named station. For example, consider a ticket from Leeds to London route "Manchester". The route from Leeds to London is ER or MM, and this does not include any route via Manchester.

Q.14: What are the valid routes for tickets of this kind, and in particular for this ticket ? (I understand that it is permitted to use the route of any ticket that is cheaper or the same price.) How do I determine such routes ?

In response to question 5, you state that a "not London" ticket may be valid via London. I do find this rather difficult to believe. However, I have constructed a specific example: Reading to Beckenham Junction. This has two fares: "any permitted" (£13.80 SDS) and "not London" (£11.60 SDS). The Routeing Guide gives "London" as the only route and there are no direct trains. The shortest distance entirely on National Railways is 48.5 miles, via Staines and Clapham Junction, while the distance via London is 44.75 miles (36 miles from Reading to Paddington plus 8.75 miles from Victoria to Beckenham Junction).

Q.15: What are the valid routes for a ticket from Reading to Beckenham Junction routed "Not London" ? Can you confirm your previous statement that such a ticket is valid via London ?

I previously asked you about the order in which maps must be used. One case that I seem to have omitted is where the route involves two maps and both routeing points appear on both maps. For example, consider Hereford to Nottingham, which has a permitted route CE+CS. Both stations are on both maps. Two potential routes are:

1. via Worcester, Stourbridge, Birmingham, Nuneaton, and Leicester (map CE to Birmingham then map CS);
2. via Worcester, Oxford, Banbury, Coventry, Birmingham, and Derby (map CS to Birmingham then map CE).

Q.16: In such a case, is it permitted to apply the maps in either order (given that both maps must be applied)? Are both these routes valid and, if not, why not?

Another route is via Worcester, Oxford, Banbury, Coventry, Birmingham, Tamworth, and Derby. This is entirely on map CS (and thus ruled out by your previous answer) but the last part - Derby to Nottingham - is also on map CE. Thus it could be claimed this is a valid route CS+CE.

Q.17: Where a section of a route is on two maps, may I choose which map to use it on in order to construct a route? Is this example route valid and, if not, why not?

Turning now to the question of shortest route, how much leeway is there in this ? For example, consider Stratford (London) to London Fields. Since Stratford is a routeing point for London Fields, the only valid routes are the shortest and those taken by direct trains (there are none). The shortest route is via Bethnal Green, but no trains from Stratford stop there.

Q.18: Does "the shortest route" from Maryland to London Fields include changing at Liverpool Street?

Another example is Edmonton Green to Stratford (London). Stratford is a routeing point for Edmonton Green, so again the only valid routes are the shortest and those taken by direct trains. The shortest route appears to be that taken by the direct train via South Tottenham, but this train operates only once a day and in one direction only. Since Stratford is a routeing point for Edmonton Green, no other routes would appear to be valid for an "any permitted" ticket.

Q.19: What are the permitted routes from Edmonton Green to Stratford on an "any permitted" ticket when departing after 11:17 (the current time of the only direct train)?

Q.20: What are the permitted routes from Stratford to Edmonton Green on any "any permitted" ticket?

(These situations exist around other "ghost" services, like Stockport to Stalybridge and Markinch to Cardenden.)

These situations also occur on busier routes. For example, although Pewsey and Bedwyn are adjacent stations, there are no trains that stop at both.

Q.21: What are the permitted routes from Pewsey to Bedwyn?

Finally, I note that you failed to respond to my comments about the bad advice I received from various enquiry offices.

Yours sincerely,

signed

Clive D.W. Feather